While obviously contributing to ideas that we’ve been discussing all semester (regarding the constructed nature of terms and concepts), Allen’s ideas of temple spaces has parallels with recent work in American musicology. Christopher Smith’s book The Creolization of American Culture: William Sidney Mount and the Roots of Blackface Minstrelsy (2013) uses Mount’s life to illustrate the spread of musical ideas across racial lines in pre-Civil War America. Smith examines a geographical network of water-based transportation (wharves, docks, barges, etc.) as sites of physical and cultural interaction between whites and blacks. He suggests that these spaces served as the origin points for the spread of ideas and styles that synthesized white and black musical practices, which directed the development of American popular music (n.b.: this draws on work I did for my comps). I mention this because these physical spaces serve as important sites of musical exchange and transmission. Such spaces can serve as conceptual metaphors for the spread of musics beyond and between class, race, etc., and greatly complicate our ideas of styles being hermetically sealed off from one another. One can go so far as to read the scrolls themselves (from Hauser’s article) as sites themselves, since they reveal the influence of folk and art styles, the conflict between tradition and innovation, etc. Paige frames his subject explicitly as “its own discrete musical space” (45). I wonder if conceiving of genres, works, performances, etc. with regards to the spaces they are performed and consumed in is a valuable way of moving beyond our problematic terminology, since we would be forced to consider everything contextually instead of lumping it into predetermined boxes. I also wonder what happens if we extend this conception further, and conceive of songs themselves as physical spaces (albeit sonic ones), a physical manifestation of what Josh Kun termed “audiotopias”). I’d honestly have to give this more thought, and there are obvious problems with this conception, but if (returning to the Allen) temples serve as midpoints between traditions and genres (ca. 37), what happens if we consider the musical works themselves in a similar way?
"I wonder if conceiving of genres, works, performances, etc. with regards to the spaces they are performed and consumed in is a valuable way of moving beyond our problematic terminology, since we would be forced to consider everything contextually instead of lumping it into predetermined boxes."
I agree. Do you consider 'space' as part of function? It all seems intertwined to me under 'context.' I'm going to try to deal with the idea of context in regards to 'folk' borrowing in my final paper so I appreciate your post.
Would you consider 'church music' in the Western traditions in the same way then? It does have a unique genre due to its function and 'space', even though its performance is now largely removed from its original setting.
during I reading I've thought a music as a tool and people did innovate based on different space, social statue, religious etc... it's very interesting you have focus on the space and broad your thought based on that notion...It's more exciting and music becomes more dynamic to imagine...we can see people use the same tool in a different place in a different purpose...however,,,the tool is always same and woud go back to be an original function.which people firstly intended,
More deconstruction of the 'folk' this week! The readings portray an image of different Indian folk traditions whose relationships to other influences - the cinema, commercialisation, art music - are dynamic and therefore subject to change and modifications. What I found especially fascinating was the changing image of the Bauls (Capwell) as perceived by the local Bengalis, and how they are part of the 'core' of the local musical tradition even though socially they are seen as the 'other'. Likewise the sociological aspects of the Bengali scroll paintings (Hauser) suggest an oral tradition that was always trying to come to terms with the demand of the market. In some ways, an authentic identification with the folk is a commodified product. Paige and Allen's articles also deal with the issue and provide perspectives from other Indian traditions. Allen suggests that we avoid 'binary hierarchical models when formulating our musical analyses' in order to understand the dynamic nature of melodies and different manifestations of musical expression. Citing the complicated relationships of the Naiyanti with Carnatic music, the Paige article also argues against narrow and stereotypical definitions of the 'folk'. I wonder how much we ought to take each indigenous musical tradition on its own terms and abandon a general conception of the folk. Could the idea of the folk be defined in such a way as to accommodate all these changes and peculiarities and yet retain something that is meaningful?
It's funny you say that in your last paragraph because I think the definitions of folk we read the first week of class did sort of attempt to do so... Not sure how successfully...
It would be tough to "take each indigenous musical tradition on its own terms and abandon a general conception of the folk" because (unless one becomes a scholar on a certain musical tradition) we do not know what the general terms and workings of the music are, generally speaking.
These readings have further blurred the lines of my idea of “folk”. Paige’s article on the Naiyanti melam is particularly interesting to me. The fact the one group can perform as a comedic ensemble that occasionally uses sexual innuendos, but also can use the urumi drum to induce spirit possessions. What a range! I am still trying to think of an example of this in American culture, but am failing to do so. One link to American culture can be found in Paige’s example of Ramaswamy’s performance of “Nakumomu”. Paige describes how an audience member recognized the piece as a film composition in the Carnatic style, when in actuality it is a Tyagaraja composition. This reminds me of the general (American) public’s knowledge of classical music. I often will sing Toreador from Bizet’s Carmen at Cincinnati Opera outreach gigs and the aria is usually met with a passive response, until I reach the famous Toreador section that is found on doorbells all over the U.S (I have actually had people come up to me and say, “I didn’t know that was an aria! That has been my doorbell for years). The reason I make this comparison is because I, in my limited knowledge of Indian classical music, was under the impression that Indian classical music was more “popular” (in the school yard sense), but it does not seem this way in our readings. I think Hauser’s article on the Patua group is fairly convincing. I like the idea of an evolving tradition that has the ability to become something new. I am interested in discovering if this sort of evolution has occurred in western folk music/art. Sambamuthy’s idea of applied music and pure art music present in Allen’s article is not a new one to me, but I find it interesting that Opera and dance are categorized under applied music. That combined with the idea that applied music is of lesser quality than pure art music is so interesting. I wonder if this is still a popular opinion in India. Here are my questions, “Do we have any examples of evolving traditions in the U.S?” Also, it seems to me that Western classical music and Indian classical music have some of the same struggles in regards to public reception. If this is the case, “Is it possible to find trends between the two in order to help find a solution to the problem?”
If we think some popular classcial tunes as a traditional music...there were many examples to explain the chaging concepts of folk music... people unconsciously listen that tune through the media.later when they face the real performance of that music it would show totally different aim of music. but....how many people would reach to get the main purpose of folk music?
Capwell’s article tells about the changed standpoint on ‘Baul’. It reminds me a Beggar’s opera in European music (fun and genre of comedy). The references of Tagore were very interesting and at least for the foreigners his interpretation would be a good source to understand Baul’s performance more deeply. At the first people would naturally feel and react toward Baul’s sophisticated tune and later rethink of its plain text. I could see when people understand the deep meaning of Baul’s and its artistic aspects, they accepted it as their national anthem and started regarding as their high cultural value. However, is it a better way to become a high artistic genre by understanding on the standard interpretation than make the raw folk material remain in the original place with its first concept? I was surprised even Bauls converted their religion for getting more economical benefit for their living. Hauser’s article deals with economical matter on folk. Being popular and commercializing the folk art would change the main concepts of the folk. The main concept of Pantuas’ performing, which was the story telling with illustration had been changed as a visual art. Paige and Allen’s article are about reaction of folk music in India toward hegemonic cultural background. The film music as the domestic genre of media would become a medium for remediation for Indian folk music. Allen argues that there is no meaning of classified a classical and non classical music in the society which is like a complex web. He gave us an example that the Raga, Indian classical tune become reformed and used as a folky and common tune without its own musical and social traits. He points out the dynamic exchange of musical material happens along with the social dynamics of urban rural interchange –patronage- within a traditional community of musicians.
I thought your question about using folk music in art music an interesting one. I know composers like Bartok, Vaughan Williams, etc. have used folk tunes in their compositions, and while those melodies might be recognizable, most of their audience probably does not know them. I imagine that if this holds true, many people might think the Bauls were not even using "folk" tunes.
I was struck by the way the Bauls and the Patua folk scroll producers both seemingly operated in a religious gray area, too. It seemed (understandably) very important that when incorporating these groups as part of the image of a new India, their respective images were "made pure" and were also somewhat separated from being strictly Muslim or Hindi.
The Capewell article presented some interesting information about the Baul people in the Bengali region of India on their casteless and “contrary” way of life. It was interesting to see how Rabindranath Tagore aided in the transformation of their perception in society (from one of parody and mimicry to respect) with his research in Baul songs, finding the songs and most importantly the song’s melodies to be a “naïve expression of truth unencumbered with social or sectarian bias.” Hauser’s article presented information on the Patuas much in the same way, that the Patuas were a very low caste that evolved and morphed over time, gaining more respect from the upper class as the Patua “folk” scroll painting fade came into being. One tidbit that was presented in her article that was interesting was that the Patua art is considered a form of begging and degradation, yet the upper class are morally obligated to provide gifts to them in order to gain religious clout. In the same vein, Paige also presented an anthology of a lower caste group, the Naizanti Melam musicians. They too were transformed by the upper class, gaining more respect when they began to incorporate elements of the more cosmopolitan Carnatic music into their repertoire. Allen’s article seemed to deal with the classical vs. non-classical dyad in South Indian music. All four articles brought forth an interesting phenomena/question that has been on my mind since the recent near-destruction of some the top symphony orchestras in the U.S. a year or so ago: who really keeps developments within the arts and in culture moving forward, the wealthy upper class patrons or the skilled artists themselves? Do the wealthy upper class patrons heavily influence the creative output of the artists since they sometimes foot the bill, or do the patrons let the artists operate on their own terms and bestow them with monetary gifts because they believe what they are doing creatively will greatly benefit society?
I can't answer your question with contemporary examples, but I know that historically, American orchestras have been massively subsidized by rich patrons. I know that there were varying degrees of engagement on the parts of these patrons (some wanted lots of control, others seemed not to care).
I think much of the recent hand-wringing and symphonic fiduciary woes is linked with a fundamental shift in the nature of public philanthropy, but it's always interested me how many view these as the "death of classical music."
It's probably both... I think rich patrons have a lot to do with it since (as I understand it) the arts are funded privately in America, more so than in Europe where countries like Germany subsidise quite a bit.
I found the Capwell reading on Baul folk song very interesting, even if it is mostly an introduction to Baul songs. I especially liked the discussion of Tagore. I thought it was interesting that Tagore thought that the music added so much to the words in Baul songs and clarified the meaning of words so much. This is sort of reminiscent of people who say that you should only set bad poetry to music, since that is the only type of poetry that can gain anything from the addition of music. Also, the way the Bauls were viewed in a sort of “other” way, being parodied by the urban middle-class reminds me of certain offensive names for sports teams. Moreover, Purna’s anger at non-Bauls’ appropriation of Baulian culture reminded me of similar racial tensions in the US. There are some African Americans who dislike white culture’s appropriation of hip-hop, R&B, etc. It is interesting that people all over the world feel a cultural connection and even ownership of music associated with their race.
Question: Do you agree that the addition of music can clarify the meaning of text? Does it depend on the listener’s culture? Will everyone get such a different “meaning” from the addition of music that this is worthless? Can “good” poetry benefit from being set to music?
Hauser’s article simply reminded me about how history is constructed. People believe that these paintings are part of a long tradition, but they were not peddled in this way until recently. It is also very interesting that these “authentic” paintings are actually very commercial, responding to market demand (vertical shape for wall decorating, etc.). I do not think that there is anything wrong with this of course, but it is funny that people think they are getting some piece of ancient history or something it seems like. Moreover, on p. 111, she points out that proposed synonyms for “folk” never really took. Again, problematizing the term “folk.” We’ve been down this road before, but it’s still interesting to me that the category doesn’t even exist conceptually in some cultures.
The Paige article was interesting in its systematic description of humor in naiyanti performance. Also, it was interesting to see that other cultures talk about “authenticity” and “naturalness” as well, as shown by the Tamil words for those introduced in the article.
I appreciate that Allen has a preference of the term “art music” over “classical music,” but his definition of art music is not really clarifying: “…simply a music which is presented and consumed as art.” Yes, and as I learned from online training from UC, “Sexual harassment is specifically harassment of a sexual nature.” Clears everything right up. However, the discussion of desi/marga around that part of the article was more clear. It seems that marga and desi might be shifting their meanings to (near) opposites of their original meanings, at least if you think of it on some kind of “High/low” scale. The rest of the article was challenging since I am not very familiar with this type of music. It’s hard for me not only because of foreign terms, but because I am not “fluent” in this music, so it is difficult to react to judgements of a certain music’s highness or lowness, etc.
"It is interesting that people all over the world feel a cultural connection and even ownership of music associated with their race."
Great point, I feel that it's almost counter-intuitive. I would think you would want to share your culture with as many people as possible but we tend to get a little possessive when it comes to our cultural identities.
I was fascinated to notice the differences and similarities between how various "folk traditions" are perceived across India, and how these traditions relate to other musical traditions, both in the same geological region and across India as a whole. For example, the Capwell article on Baul music made it very clear that the Baul idiom has come to represent some sort of Bengali "essence" or "truth," but it has come to represent this by being placed inside a sort of cultural vacuum, interacting less and less with other musical traditions. Alternatively, the comic music ensembles discussed in the Paige article consciously embody musical characteristics from folk, film, and classical music traditions, and even go so far as to alter their program according to the audience -- acting as a cultural sponge, rather than operating within a vacuum, the exact opposite of the Bauls.
Both the Hauser and the Allen seem to be examining the Patua paintings and the melodies on a spectrum/continuum, a horizontal line, connecting folk and classical. I was actually disappointed by this simplistic analytical model -- Allen especially did a wonderful job providing a clear definition of terminology (desi, marga, etc.), so I expected a much more nuanced approach. Do you feel that these two authors sufficiently allowed for the influences of popular/film/political music to be explained within their articles? Did they need to, or would such complexities move beyond the scope of their theses?
A few other observations:
The example of Dutt in the Hauser article reminded me that governments or other predominant cultural institutions are not the only ones who can potentially adopt a folk tradition or folk idiom for their own nationalistic/propogranda agenda. Dutt did so in direct opposition to the dominant contemporary art schools at the time!
The term "re-mediation" I find to be EXTREMELY helpful! The example we read about were the comic musical ensembles re-mediating "folk" film music or "classical" film music for their own purposes and self-expression. This example made me think of the sound track to the recent film Pride and Prejudice (the new one starring Kiera Knightley)... the score was written by pianist Dario Marianelli, and was specifically composed to imitate the idiom of Beethoven, Schubert, and Mendelssohn, but in a "digestible" way. It creates "classicalized" background music. Do you think this example is an exact parallel with the Indian music example? Why or why not?
This is a really interesting observation in the first paragraph how the baul/melam are sort of vacuum/sponges. I'm not sure how much the baul are isolated though. What's interesting to me is how they are both molding their art to markets: the Baul trying to create an 'authentic' Bengali; Melam musicians are trying to keep crowds coming.
I really liked the continuum personally, and I've found it a helpful way of breaking out of "either/or" dialectics (something like "Revolution #9" from the White Album isn't *really* pop music, and it falls closer to the classical music side of the spectrum). It is simplistic, but I think it forces us to consider the full range of possibilities between these poles, and might be a helpful way of dealing with the terminology that's been giving everyone fits all semester.
I think "re-mediation" could describe the Marianelli score depending on how you define "media." If film music is different from classical "concert" music (and I think there is some evidence that they can very usefully be thought of as different...think of the largely tonal music of film scores while serialism was all the rage in conservatories), then I think "re-mediation" would describe this. Also, if you simply regard the 21st C as a new type of music appropriating styles from centuries ago, the word would probably stand as well.
Interesting thought about re-mediation, I am not sure about your example though. On the one hand, yes, Marianelli re-mediated the styles of Beethoven, Schubert, and Mendelssohn to express his ideas about the goings on in the film in his own composition. However, the comic music ensemble re-mediated music that had already been written by other composers...it was not their own music.
Interesting readings, but truth be told I'm not really sure how to apply the question of "folk artist" vs. "folk artisan" r.e. music to the articles, mostly because I'm none to clear on the differentiation between those terms myself. It seemed throughout these articles that an “artist” was viewed on a higher level than an “artisan,” and that changing one’s status to “artist” was desirable.
Hauser's article about the transition from a sung tradition aided by painted scrolls to a largely commercial venture in which the singing is not as important as the art product was an interesting look at how markets influence culture. Since it is being promoted by more upper-class intelligentsia and there is not as much of a "holding to the past" on the part of the artists/artisans - can this count as a revival by Livingstone's definition? Even if there are forces outside of the producers working to "preserve" it?
Like others on this board this week, I found the concept of appropriation interesting in Capwell's article about Baul music. It's something that has come up in some other articles I've been reading recently. Can a musical style really be "owned" in the modern world? If a style of hip-hop or rock (say, the Beach Boys) is imitated by others, is it intellectual theft, misappropriation, or simply the nature of borrowing, emulation, and imitation that seems to have characterized much of music's history? (Still there is no doubt that a certain style of music's connection to a specific place, people, ethnic or social class, or religion make these appropriations more fraught than, say, enjoying Korean BBQ served in a corn tortilla in LA.)
Really enjoyed Paige's detailed look at the different types of music performed by the naiyanti melam ensembles, and the reasons why. The process of remediation seems to me like the next step in the argument about appropriation; the flip side is that even then the form and style is changing and that can be upsetting to some purists. I needed the reminder, however, that unlike the US where the film market is dominated by big studios all based in Hollywood, there are a lot of regional film markets in India. (Correct?) Here in the US, a Disney tune will be recognized on either coast. Doesn't seem like that is the case in India as much - are there large film corporations whose soundtracks are routinely widespread?
Allen’s article rather lost me in its terminology. I found some definitions about 13 pages beyond where I felt I needed them, and even then I found it difficult to track how the tunes were applied or changed now. I found the comparison of temple spaces to radio broadcasts fascinating; the idea of a musical public space where even if one wasn’t allowed in, one could hear what was going on. Can the concept of a public music space be transferred in any way to a virtual world (shared playlists, etc.)?
Hasser—nationalism seems to always be the impetus for the appropriation of some product from a subaltern or “folk” subgroup. In this case, the Bengali elites looking to the Bengali peasant as the embodiment of Bengali-ness. It’s interesting how this whole thing came about as a reaction to Anglophile culture in Bengal. I wonder if such a strong nationalist movement would have happened had there not been such a widespread anglophile culture there.
Paige—examples that don't fit neatly into our terminology are always interesting of which the melam musicians are an excellent example— playing film music and Carnatic music. That said, I'm not totally convinced on all the author's points: “Imagining the relationship between the film industry and folk musicians as an equitable partnership necessarily glosses over the unequal distribution of power within which this relationship is situated.” ---I agree with this
But I have a problem with the idea that folk musicians appropriating film music was a form of empowerment. I doubt the melam musicians are thinking, “I feel so empowered/liberated as an artist by playing this film song therefore sticking it to the man.” I think they are probably just playing what will make them money and there's not much more to it than that. I’m not buying that “the performance of film songs can thus be understood as socially and culturally liberating.” In a way, it’s kind of the opposite in my opinion. I understand that it introduces melam musicians to a large array of genres (but this somehow supposes that melam musicians are not capable of exploring such genres on their own) but I think it’s a stretch. Nonetheless, the idea that melam musicians break this stereotypical mold is interesting. I tried to think of other possible examples of this but came up short. All I can think of is pop musicians who might sample a short ostinato or tune from classical repertory, but not anyone trying to perform classical music as part of their concerts.
Allen—I really like how clearly laid out these four categories of South Indian musicians are. I think it shows how you can briefly (in just a few pages) layout the terminological you might deal with in a paper and make more nuanced distinctions than folk/art; classical/non-classical.
Yes, I had a bit of an issue with the empowerment angle too. Granted, from the description the film tunes are being changed a fair amount by the musicians.
I can't help but think that, even if it is being "remediated" and can occasionally have multiple levels of meaning, there are going to be many times when that's simply not the case, though.... It's sort of like playing a jazz version of "Somewhere Over the Rainbow" (very popular at weddings, don't ask me why). There are limits to how much one can jazz it up, since in the end the audience really wants "Somewhere Over the Rainbow." It's not empowering; it's supply and demand.
I believe the band YES performed "Classical" music on their concerts on synthesizers. There is a recording of the last movement of Brahms 4 played on synthesizer that is kind of neat. Interesting, to say the least!
I think of the appropriation of film music as being parallel with a jazz combo appropriating various non-standard tunes --- riffing on classical themes or pop themes, for example.
While obviously contributing to ideas that we’ve been discussing all semester (regarding the constructed nature of terms and concepts), Allen’s ideas of temple spaces has parallels with recent work in American musicology. Christopher Smith’s book The Creolization of American Culture: William Sidney Mount and the Roots of Blackface Minstrelsy (2013) uses Mount’s life to illustrate the spread of musical ideas across racial lines in pre-Civil War America. Smith examines a geographical network of water-based transportation (wharves, docks, barges, etc.) as sites of physical and cultural interaction between whites and blacks. He suggests that these spaces served as the origin points for the spread of ideas and styles that synthesized white and black musical practices, which directed the development of American popular music (n.b.: this draws on work I did for my comps).
ReplyDeleteI mention this because these physical spaces serve as important sites of musical exchange and transmission. Such spaces can serve as conceptual metaphors for the spread of musics beyond and between class, race, etc., and greatly complicate our ideas of styles being hermetically sealed off from one another. One can go so far as to read the scrolls themselves (from Hauser’s article) as sites themselves, since they reveal the influence of folk and art styles, the conflict between tradition and innovation, etc. Paige frames his subject explicitly as “its own discrete musical space” (45).
I wonder if conceiving of genres, works, performances, etc. with regards to the spaces they are performed and consumed in is a valuable way of moving beyond our problematic terminology, since we would be forced to consider everything contextually instead of lumping it into predetermined boxes. I also wonder what happens if we extend this conception further, and conceive of songs themselves as physical spaces (albeit sonic ones), a physical manifestation of what Josh Kun termed “audiotopias”). I’d honestly have to give this more thought, and there are obvious problems with this conception, but if (returning to the Allen) temples serve as midpoints between traditions and genres (ca. 37), what happens if we consider the musical works themselves in a similar way?
"I wonder if conceiving of genres, works, performances, etc. with regards to the spaces they are performed and consumed in is a valuable way of moving beyond our problematic terminology, since we would be forced to consider everything contextually instead of lumping it into predetermined boxes."
DeleteI agree. Do you consider 'space' as part of function? It all seems intertwined to me under 'context.' I'm going to try to deal with the idea of context in regards to 'folk' borrowing in my final paper so I appreciate your post.
Would you consider 'church music' in the Western traditions in the same way then? It does have a unique genre due to its function and 'space', even though its performance is now largely removed from its original setting.
Deleteduring I reading I've thought a music as a tool and people did innovate based on different space, social statue, religious etc...
Deleteit's very interesting you have focus on the space and broad your thought based on that notion...It's more exciting and music becomes more dynamic to imagine...we can see people use the same tool in a different place in a different purpose...however,,,the tool is always same and woud go back to be an original function.which people firstly intended,
More deconstruction of the 'folk' this week! The readings portray an image of different Indian folk traditions whose relationships to other influences - the cinema, commercialisation, art music - are dynamic and therefore subject to change and modifications. What I found especially fascinating was the changing image of the Bauls (Capwell) as perceived by the local Bengalis, and how they are part of the 'core' of the local musical tradition even though socially they are seen as the 'other'. Likewise the sociological aspects of the Bengali scroll paintings (Hauser) suggest an oral tradition that was always trying to come to terms with the demand of the market. In some ways, an authentic identification with the folk is a commodified product.
ReplyDeletePaige and Allen's articles also deal with the issue and provide perspectives from other Indian traditions. Allen suggests that we avoid 'binary hierarchical
models when formulating our musical analyses' in order to understand the dynamic nature of melodies and different manifestations of musical expression. Citing the complicated relationships of the Naiyanti with Carnatic music, the Paige article also argues against narrow and stereotypical definitions of the 'folk'.
I wonder how much we ought to take each indigenous musical tradition on its own terms and abandon a general conception of the folk. Could the idea of the folk be defined in such a way as to accommodate all these changes and peculiarities and yet retain something that is meaningful?
It's funny you say that in your last paragraph because I think the definitions of folk we read the first week of class did sort of attempt to do so... Not sure how successfully...
DeleteIt would be tough to "take each indigenous musical tradition on its own terms and abandon a general conception of the folk" because (unless one becomes a scholar on a certain musical tradition) we do not know what the general terms and workings of the music are, generally speaking.
DeleteThese readings have further blurred the lines of my idea of “folk”. Paige’s article on the Naiyanti melam is particularly interesting to me. The fact the one group can perform as a comedic ensemble that occasionally uses sexual innuendos, but also can use the urumi drum to induce spirit possessions. What a range! I am still trying to think of an example of this in American culture, but am failing to do so. One link to American culture can be found in Paige’s example of Ramaswamy’s performance of “Nakumomu”. Paige describes how an audience member recognized the piece as a film composition in the Carnatic style, when in actuality it is a Tyagaraja composition. This reminds me of the general (American) public’s knowledge of classical music. I often will sing Toreador from Bizet’s Carmen at Cincinnati Opera outreach gigs and the aria is usually met with a passive response, until I reach the famous Toreador section that is found on doorbells all over the U.S (I have actually had people come up to me and say, “I didn’t know that was an aria! That has been my doorbell for years). The reason I make this comparison is because I, in my limited knowledge of Indian classical music, was under the impression that Indian classical music was more “popular” (in the school yard sense), but it does not seem this way in our readings.
ReplyDeleteI think Hauser’s article on the Patua group is fairly convincing. I like the idea of an evolving tradition that has the ability to become something new. I am interested in discovering if this sort of evolution has occurred in western folk music/art.
Sambamuthy’s idea of applied music and pure art music present in Allen’s article is not a new one to me, but I find it interesting that Opera and dance are categorized under applied music. That combined with the idea that applied music is of lesser quality than pure art music is so interesting. I wonder if this is still a popular opinion in India.
Here are my questions, “Do we have any examples of evolving traditions in the U.S?” Also, it seems to me that Western classical music and Indian classical music have some of the same struggles in regards to public reception. If this is the case, “Is it possible to find trends between the two in order to help find a solution to the problem?”
If we think some popular classcial tunes as a traditional music...there were many examples to explain the chaging concepts of folk music...
Deletepeople unconsciously listen that tune through the media.later when they face the real performance of that music it would show totally different aim of music.
but....how many people would reach to get the main purpose of folk music?
Capwell’s article tells about the changed standpoint on ‘Baul’. It reminds me a Beggar’s opera in European music (fun and genre of comedy). The references of Tagore were very interesting and at least for the foreigners his interpretation would be a good source to understand Baul’s performance more deeply. At the first people would naturally feel and react toward Baul’s sophisticated tune and later rethink of its plain text. I could see when people understand the deep meaning of Baul’s and its artistic aspects, they accepted it as their national anthem and started regarding as their high cultural value. However, is it a better way to become a high artistic genre by understanding on the standard interpretation than make the raw folk material remain in the original place with its first concept? I was surprised even Bauls converted their religion for getting more economical benefit for their living.
ReplyDeleteHauser’s article deals with economical matter on folk. Being popular and commercializing the folk art would change the main concepts of the folk. The main concept of Pantuas’ performing, which was the story telling with illustration had been changed as a visual art.
Paige and Allen’s article are about reaction of folk music in India toward hegemonic cultural background. The film music as the domestic genre of media would become a medium for remediation for Indian folk music.
Allen argues that there is no meaning of classified a classical and non classical music in the society which is like a complex web. He gave us an example that the Raga, Indian classical tune become reformed and used as a folky and common tune without its own musical and social traits. He points out the dynamic exchange of musical material happens along with the social dynamics of urban rural interchange –patronage- within a traditional community of musicians.
I thought your question about using folk music in art music an interesting one. I know composers like Bartok, Vaughan Williams, etc. have used folk tunes in their compositions, and while those melodies might be recognizable, most of their audience probably does not know them. I imagine that if this holds true, many people might think the Bauls were not even using "folk" tunes.
DeleteI was struck by the way the Bauls and the Patua folk scroll producers both seemingly operated in a religious gray area, too. It seemed (understandably) very important that when incorporating these groups as part of the image of a new India, their respective images were "made pure" and were also somewhat separated from being strictly Muslim or Hindi.
DeleteThe Capewell article presented some interesting information about the Baul people in the Bengali region of India on their casteless and “contrary” way of life. It was interesting to see how Rabindranath Tagore aided in the transformation of their perception in society (from one of parody and mimicry to respect) with his research in Baul songs, finding the songs and most importantly the song’s melodies to be a “naïve expression of truth unencumbered with social or sectarian bias.”
ReplyDeleteHauser’s article presented information on the Patuas much in the same way, that the Patuas were a very low caste that evolved and morphed over time, gaining more respect from the upper class as the Patua “folk” scroll painting fade came into being. One tidbit that was presented in her article that was interesting was that the Patua art is considered a form of begging and degradation, yet the upper class are morally obligated to provide gifts to them in order to gain religious clout.
In the same vein, Paige also presented an anthology of a lower caste group, the Naizanti Melam musicians. They too were transformed by the upper class, gaining more respect when they began to incorporate elements of the more cosmopolitan Carnatic music into their repertoire. Allen’s article seemed to deal with the classical vs. non-classical dyad in South Indian music.
All four articles brought forth an interesting phenomena/question that has been on my mind since the recent near-destruction of some the top symphony orchestras in the U.S. a year or so ago: who really keeps developments within the arts and in culture moving forward, the wealthy upper class patrons or the skilled artists themselves? Do the wealthy upper class patrons heavily influence the creative output of the artists since they sometimes foot the bill, or do the patrons let the artists operate on their own terms and bestow them with monetary gifts because they believe what they are doing creatively will greatly benefit society?
I can't answer your question with contemporary examples, but I know that historically, American orchestras have been massively subsidized by rich patrons. I know that there were varying degrees of engagement on the parts of these patrons (some wanted lots of control, others seemed not to care).
DeleteI think much of the recent hand-wringing and symphonic fiduciary woes is linked with a fundamental shift in the nature of public philanthropy, but it's always interested me how many view these as the "death of classical music."
It's probably both... I think rich patrons have a lot to do with it since (as I understand it) the arts are funded privately in America, more so than in Europe where countries like Germany subsidise quite a bit.
DeleteI found the Capwell reading on Baul folk song very interesting, even if it is mostly an introduction to Baul songs. I especially liked the discussion of Tagore. I thought it was interesting that Tagore thought that the music added so much to the words in Baul songs and clarified the meaning of words so much. This is sort of reminiscent of people who say that you should only set bad poetry to music, since that is the only type of poetry that can gain anything from the addition of music. Also, the way the Bauls were viewed in a sort of “other” way, being parodied by the urban middle-class reminds me of certain offensive names for sports teams. Moreover, Purna’s anger at non-Bauls’ appropriation of Baulian culture reminded me of similar racial tensions in the US. There are some African Americans who dislike white culture’s appropriation of hip-hop, R&B, etc. It is interesting that people all over the world feel a cultural connection and even ownership of music associated with their race.
ReplyDeleteQuestion: Do you agree that the addition of music can clarify the meaning of text? Does it depend on the listener’s culture? Will everyone get such a different “meaning” from the addition of music that this is worthless? Can “good” poetry benefit from being set to music?
Hauser’s article simply reminded me about how history is constructed. People believe that these paintings are part of a long tradition, but they were not peddled in this way until recently. It is also very interesting that these “authentic” paintings are actually very commercial, responding to market demand (vertical shape for wall decorating, etc.). I do not think that there is anything wrong with this of course, but it is funny that people think they are getting some piece of ancient history or something it seems like. Moreover, on p. 111, she points out that proposed synonyms for “folk” never really took. Again, problematizing the term “folk.” We’ve been down this road before, but it’s still interesting to me that the category doesn’t even exist conceptually in some cultures.
The Paige article was interesting in its systematic description of humor in naiyanti performance. Also, it was interesting to see that other cultures talk about “authenticity” and “naturalness” as well, as shown by the Tamil words for those introduced in the article.
I appreciate that Allen has a preference of the term “art music” over “classical music,” but his definition of art music is not really clarifying: “…simply a music which is presented and consumed as art.” Yes, and as I learned from online training from UC, “Sexual harassment is specifically harassment of a sexual nature.” Clears everything right up. However, the discussion of desi/marga around that part of the article was more clear. It seems that marga and desi might be shifting their meanings to (near) opposites of their original meanings, at least if you think of it on some kind of “High/low” scale. The rest of the article was challenging since I am not very familiar with this type of music. It’s hard for me not only because of foreign terms, but because I am not “fluent” in this music, so it is difficult to react to judgements of a certain music’s highness or lowness, etc.
"It is interesting that people all over the world feel a cultural connection and even ownership of music associated with their race."
DeleteGreat point, I feel that it's almost counter-intuitive. I would think you would want to share your culture with as many people as possible but we tend to get a little possessive when it comes to our cultural identities.
I was fascinated to notice the differences and similarities between how various "folk traditions" are perceived across India, and how these traditions relate to other musical traditions, both in the same geological region and across India as a whole. For example, the Capwell article on Baul music made it very clear that the Baul idiom has come to represent some sort of Bengali "essence" or "truth," but it has come to represent this by being placed inside a sort of cultural vacuum, interacting less and less with other musical traditions. Alternatively, the comic music ensembles discussed in the Paige article consciously embody musical characteristics from folk, film, and classical music traditions, and even go so far as to alter their program according to the audience -- acting as a cultural sponge, rather than operating within a vacuum, the exact opposite of the Bauls.
ReplyDeleteBoth the Hauser and the Allen seem to be examining the Patua paintings and the melodies on a spectrum/continuum, a horizontal line, connecting folk and classical. I was actually disappointed by this simplistic analytical model -- Allen especially did a wonderful job providing a clear definition of terminology (desi, marga, etc.), so I expected a much more nuanced approach. Do you feel that these two authors sufficiently allowed for the influences of popular/film/political music to be explained within their articles? Did they need to, or would such complexities move beyond the scope of their theses?
A few other observations:
The example of Dutt in the Hauser article reminded me that governments or other predominant cultural institutions are not the only ones who can potentially adopt a folk tradition or folk idiom for their own nationalistic/propogranda agenda. Dutt did so in direct opposition to the dominant contemporary art schools at the time!
The term "re-mediation" I find to be EXTREMELY helpful! The example we read about were the comic musical ensembles re-mediating "folk" film music or "classical" film music for their own purposes and self-expression. This example made me think of the sound track to the recent film Pride and Prejudice (the new one starring Kiera Knightley)... the score was written by pianist Dario Marianelli, and was specifically composed to imitate the idiom of Beethoven, Schubert, and Mendelssohn, but in a "digestible" way. It creates "classicalized" background music. Do you think this example is an exact parallel with the Indian music example? Why or why not?
This is a really interesting observation in the first paragraph how the baul/melam are sort of vacuum/sponges. I'm not sure how much the baul are isolated though. What's interesting to me is how they are both molding their art to markets: the Baul trying to create an 'authentic' Bengali; Melam musicians are trying to keep crowds coming.
DeleteI really liked the continuum personally, and I've found it a helpful way of breaking out of "either/or" dialectics (something like "Revolution #9" from the White Album isn't *really* pop music, and it falls closer to the classical music side of the spectrum). It is simplistic, but I think it forces us to consider the full range of possibilities between these poles, and might be a helpful way of dealing with the terminology that's been giving everyone fits all semester.
DeleteYes, John, perhaps simpler models have the potential to yield better results!
DeleteI think "re-mediation" could describe the Marianelli score depending on how you define "media." If film music is different from classical "concert" music (and I think there is some evidence that they can very usefully be thought of as different...think of the largely tonal music of film scores while serialism was all the rage in conservatories), then I think "re-mediation" would describe this. Also, if you simply regard the 21st C as a new type of music appropriating styles from centuries ago, the word would probably stand as well.
DeleteInteresting thought about re-mediation, I am not sure about your example though. On the one hand, yes, Marianelli re-mediated the styles of Beethoven, Schubert, and Mendelssohn to express his ideas about the goings on in the film in his own composition. However, the comic music ensemble re-mediated music that had already been written by other composers...it was not their own music.
DeleteInteresting readings, but truth be told I'm not really sure how to apply the question of "folk artist" vs. "folk artisan" r.e. music to the articles, mostly because I'm none to clear on the differentiation between those terms myself. It seemed throughout these articles that an “artist” was viewed on a higher level than an “artisan,” and that changing one’s status to “artist” was desirable.
ReplyDeleteHauser's article about the transition from a sung tradition aided by painted scrolls to a largely commercial venture in which the singing is not as important as the art product was an interesting look at how markets influence culture. Since it is being promoted by more upper-class intelligentsia and there is not as much of a "holding to the past" on the part of the artists/artisans - can this count as a revival by Livingstone's definition? Even if there are forces outside of the producers working to "preserve" it?
Like others on this board this week, I found the concept of appropriation interesting in Capwell's article about Baul music. It's something that has come up in some other articles I've been reading recently. Can a musical style really be "owned" in the modern world? If a style of hip-hop or rock (say, the Beach Boys) is imitated by others, is it intellectual theft, misappropriation, or simply the nature of borrowing, emulation, and imitation that seems to have characterized much of music's history? (Still there is no doubt that a certain style of music's connection to a specific place, people, ethnic or social class, or religion make these appropriations more fraught than, say, enjoying Korean BBQ served in a corn tortilla in LA.)
Really enjoyed Paige's detailed look at the different types of music performed by the naiyanti melam ensembles, and the reasons why. The process of remediation seems to me like the next step in the argument about appropriation; the flip side is that even then the form and style is changing and that can be upsetting to some purists. I needed the reminder, however, that unlike the US where the film market is dominated by big studios all based in Hollywood, there are a lot of regional film markets in India. (Correct?) Here in the US, a Disney tune will be recognized on either coast. Doesn't seem like that is the case in India as much - are there large film corporations whose soundtracks are routinely widespread?
Allen’s article rather lost me in its terminology. I found some definitions about 13 pages beyond where I felt I needed them, and even then I found it difficult to track how the tunes were applied or changed now. I found the comparison of temple spaces to radio broadcasts fascinating; the idea of a musical public space where even if one wasn’t allowed in, one could hear what was going on. Can the concept of a public music space be transferred in any way to a virtual world (shared playlists, etc.)?
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I was also a little confused by the artist vs. artisan terminology.
DeleteHasser—nationalism seems to always be the impetus for the appropriation of some product from a subaltern or “folk” subgroup. In this case, the Bengali elites looking to the Bengali peasant as the embodiment of Bengali-ness. It’s interesting how this whole thing came about as a reaction to Anglophile culture in Bengal. I wonder if such a strong nationalist movement would have happened had there not been such a widespread anglophile culture there.
ReplyDeletePaige—examples that don't fit neatly into our terminology are always interesting of which the melam musicians are an excellent example— playing film music and Carnatic music. That said, I'm not totally convinced on all the author's points:
“Imagining the relationship between the film industry and folk
musicians as an equitable partnership necessarily glosses over the unequal distribution of power within which this relationship is situated.” ---I agree with this
But I have a problem with the idea that folk musicians appropriating film music was a form of empowerment. I doubt the melam musicians are thinking, “I feel so empowered/liberated as an artist by playing this film song therefore sticking it to the man.” I think they are probably just playing what will make them money and there's not much more to it than that. I’m not buying that “the performance of film songs can thus be understood as socially and culturally liberating.” In a way, it’s kind of the opposite in my opinion. I understand that it introduces melam musicians to a large array of genres (but this somehow supposes that melam musicians are not capable of exploring such genres on their own) but I think it’s a stretch.
Nonetheless, the idea that melam musicians break this stereotypical mold is interesting. I tried to think of other possible examples of this but came up short. All I can think of is pop musicians who might sample a short ostinato or tune from classical repertory, but not anyone trying to perform classical music as part of their concerts.
Allen—I really like how clearly laid out these four categories of South Indian musicians are. I think it shows how you can briefly (in just a few pages) layout the terminological you might deal with in a paper and make more nuanced distinctions than folk/art; classical/non-classical.
Yes, I had a bit of an issue with the empowerment angle too. Granted, from the description the film tunes are being changed a fair amount by the musicians.
DeleteI can't help but think that, even if it is being "remediated" and can occasionally have multiple levels of meaning, there are going to be many times when that's simply not the case, though.... It's sort of like playing a jazz version of "Somewhere Over the Rainbow" (very popular at weddings, don't ask me why). There are limits to how much one can jazz it up, since in the end the audience really wants "Somewhere Over the Rainbow." It's not empowering; it's supply and demand.
I believe the band YES performed "Classical" music on their concerts on synthesizers. There is a recording of the last movement of Brahms 4 played on synthesizer that is kind of neat. Interesting, to say the least!
DeleteI think of the appropriation of film music as being parallel with a jazz combo appropriating various non-standard tunes --- riffing on classical themes or pop themes, for example.
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